Param Vinay thhi moksha chhe
Absolute humility leads to freedom

 

Name = Michael

Issue= Ego

Comments = below

 

April 29 2007

 

First I would like to thank-you for your website. It is very nice. I

have a few questions/comments to pose to you.

 

1)

David Godman told me he felt that there were 2 (or 3) true living

jnanis in Tiru (maybe beyond I'm not sure what he meant) - namely Lakshmana

Swami and Sri Sarada his disciple. I read that Papaji said he knew of

only 2 as well in his life - Ramana and some yogi who came out of the

woods one day. This is not very encouraging. What are your thoughts on

this, and what are we to make of all of the myriad of teachers out there

today who claim or insinuate that they are self-realized. Are there

levels of realization? If not, are they short of the mark and deluded

somehow? If they are the same, then why David's and Papaji's and others

comments suggesting the incredible rarity of a true jnani? Can teachers of

a lesser attainment (if there is such a thing) guide their students

only so far, and then they would have to meet a jnani of this calibre to

finish the journey? Surely not all of the advaita teachers today (any?)

are jnanis.

 

2)

I was curious about something else. Teachers and some teachings speak

about grace as being the decider. No matter what one does, what teachers

they meet, how learned they might be, how many cool meditation

experiences they've had, it is Grace alone that decides who shall cross to the

other shore. So we have the case of Ramana for example. We heap praises

and adulations on him. We give him the highest respect and are in awe

of his life and attainment. But really, here was a normal teenager

without a clue who got zapped by Grace, and everything after that was not

the boy anymore but Self appearing to do and say things. The rest in

truth was one giant cakewalk - or just as it was supposed to be. Previous

lives, of which teenage Venkataraman hadn't a clue, led up to this

magnificent turning point. On the spiritual evolution scale, he was plucked

among the many and then he was no longer. So really, what did that

teenager do? What form or person or name are we placing on a pedesta!

 l, hanging up photos of, visiting his decaying body in Tiru, and even

using his name as a mantra? The whole thing is a cosmic game and it is

absolutely impersonal! You Wayne have done nothing. You have attained

nothing. And you have taught nothing. Am I

correct?Self/Nature/Brahman/Intelligence has always been calling the shots,

 and God knows why so and

so is chosen and the other guy not. Why one yogi could spend their

whole life meditating in a cave only to return to society a sex-crazed

freak with supernatural powers, and an innocent teenage boy can suddenly

hit the deck and out of nowhere have ego and mind completely dissolved

into the Heart center for ever. One thing we do know is that at any given

time in history, there have been only a rare few true jnanis on earth.

And there is no sign (in spite of what new-agers are claiming about

accelerated spiritual evolution) and no reason to believe that this will

be any different in the future. So what really is the point - the!

  objective - of all of this satsang stuff anyway? The books, the stori

es, the workshops, the photos, the experiences, the lineages, the inner

circles, the forums and websites? We can't force grace right? We can't

coax it. We can't bribe it. We can't work for it. We can't align

ourselves with it. We can't be near it or pay for it. We can't be given it by

another. We can't train for it or study our way to it. We can't attract

it or please is with good diet and deeds. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. It

isn't even an it!

 

Thank-you for your time and patience,  

Michael

 

 

 

 

Dear Michael:

 

Specific parts of your many questions and comments are highlighted and the response follows. Yours are in bold.

 

 

David Godman told me he felt that there were 2 (or 3) true living

jnanis in Tiru (maybe beyond I'm not sure what he meant) - namely Lakshmana

Swami and Sri Sarada his disciple. I read that Papaji said he knew of

only 2 as well in his life - Ramana and some yogi who came out of the

woods one day. This is not very encouraging. What are your thoughts on

this,

 

The current era of the time cycle is called Kaliyug in Vedanta, and Dusham Kaal in Jain Vision. It is characterized by lack of unity in thoughts, speech and acts. Simply put, what one thinks, is different from what one says and that is all together different from what is evident in one’s acts or conduct. This is not the fault of the human being. It is simply the innate nature of human beings of this era. That is why a Gnani or a Jnani, the enlightened One in human form becomes so relevant and important, because he is indeed beyond thoughts, speech and acts.

 

To arrive at this state, he started off as an ordinary mortal human being and then ended up as a Gnani. There is no effect without a cause. Nothing happens just as a miracle. The net inner spiritual stock expresses as the knowledge or Gnan in a particular lifetime, and continues to grow from within. For instance, Michael and Shuddha are currently in external spiritual interaction, and deep within, both of us, is the spiritual causal intent, which is growing and will come to fruition in future.

 

All Gnanis or enlightened ones began as human beings and became Gods. This state manifested within, because every human being has this latent capacity within, and by coming in contact with the right external evidence, the process begins. This external evidence is verily the Gnani.

 

The Gnani has no name, or identification with the body. We call them Buddha, Mahavir, Krishna Christ, Ramana or Dadashri. Their message is to take us within. Our old habits are to carry on compartmentalizing and boxing them in neat little post boxes. That is the role of the intellect- the buddhi within.

 

You and I have met a Gnani in our previous life, or past if you will, and that is why the current interaction is taking place. The Gnani is the original cause of liberation. His vision is 180 degrees different from the worldly being for whom, a day after day routine of eat, drink, enjoy, procreate and carrying on repeating the same, is life.

 

 

Ramana and some yogi who came out of the

woods one day. This is not very encouraging.

 

Yes, this used to be so until the entry of the Akram Vignani. He is much more than a Gnani. He is now bringing the great news and living moksha for the human beings who are bogged down in the old methods and path to liberation, which has simply not worked.

 

Thousands are now finding out that Self-realization is easy. That is because of the Vignan, the scientific approach of the Gnani  Purush which liberates a human being first and then lets him see it all,  as it is.

 

Ramana and previous Gnanis talked about Self inquiry. The Akram Vignani , Dadashri, says it is not possible for human beings of this era to do so and succeed. So he starts afresh from a totally new method. He gives the seeker the Self  first, This is accomplished in the now famous process called the Gnan Vidhi

 

So,  very encouraging new hope is now there for the world.

 

There are 2 distinct realizations

 

Self realization and self realization. The former is beyond thoughts, speech and actions. The latter is common, and these have a long way to travel….

 

 

 

and what are we to make of all of the myriad of teachers out there

today who claim or insinuate that they are self-realized. Are there

levels of realization?

 

 

It is very simple.

 

Self-realization means to be free from the self. The self is Michael and his inner world of pride, deceit, greed and anger and desires for pleasure, which binds him to the external world.

 

The one who has attained this state being free form inner passions,  is Self- realized.

 

There will be differences in attainment of this, but that again does not take away from the fact that one is Self realized.

 

To realize the Self is to become aware that one is not Michael.

This awareness is an internal awakening that grows.

This growth is the reason why there are levels of realization.

The growth cannot begin unless there is a seed

This seed is available only by a live meeting with a  Gnani

This seed cannot be acquired from anywhere else.

This seed is such that it has an instant effect.

The receiver of the seed will know.

That is the grace.

 

 

and what are we to make of all of the myriad of teachers out there

today?

 

 

Just as every worldly teacher has something to offer and teach, these human beings who ‘claim’ to be Self-realised also have something to teach and offer the seeker.

 

The student and the seeker has to decide his goal. What is he seeking? What does he want out of the other human being? It is because 99.9999% of the seekers are beggars that they end up meeting the wrong teachers, and end up getting hurt.

 

In the final analysis one or the other internal negativity and passion of  pride, deceit, worldly need, self satisfaction, greed is being fed, when one  ends up with the ‘master’  whom he considers enlightened. The symbiotic relationship continues. The 6^th grader has met the teacher of the 6^th grade. Both are fine for each other and there is very little further, to be said about this order in the world.

 

 

So we have the case of Ramana for example. We heap praises

and adulations on him. We give him the highest respect and are in awe

of his life and attainment. But really, here was a normal teenager

without a clue who got zapped by Grace, and everything after that was not

the boy anymore but Self appearing to do and say things. The rest in

truth was one giant cakewalk –

 

The one who wants to be absolutely free from anger, will one day become free from it. This is possible only  if one understands why anger happens. Anger is the reaction to anyone threatening that which one holds very close and dear. For most human beings it is the extra weight given to this sense of  ‘I am Michael’. It is called pride. If someone says, ‘Michael is great,’ who experiences the pleasure? That pleasure is sweet. If someone says, ‘Michael is an ass,’ anger erupts. That same inner one tries to get more of the same, by employing deceit. And then it gets sweeter, so one gathers money and wealth to taste the sweetness of the status of being Michael. That is again the pride. Then the money becomes the  greed  substrate and that greed is so sweet that one lets go of the pride and then if someone were to insult Michael, he will smile, because the money in the pocket is sweeter.

 

This inner subtle chain reaction is going on life after life. Only the Gnani is free from its most subtle effect. Human beings are laden with tons of its gross effects. In the spectrum there is the gross, subtle, subtler and the subtlest.

 

Nothing that unfolds in front of these 3: the thoughts, speech and actions is a sudden ‘zap’. It is all an exact and precise effect, behind which is a cause. These causes were laid in the past life. Everything that you and I see and the world sees of Ramana or Jesus or Saddam or Bush or Putin  or Obama is simply an unfolding. It is what is within that is unseen. That unseen is the cause. The external has very little value, because it has already happened. One only thinks that it is happening.

 

Did Michael have to worry about his meal or shelter when Michael entered this world?

 

 

 

We can't be given it by

another. We can't train for it or study our way to it.

 

When Michael was a very young boy, his mother or father or someone taught him, here, these are the two bottles. Both of them have something sweet in it. Yet do not touch this one labeled ‘poison,’ if you do, you will die. Then does Michael ever touches that bottle to check out the truth in it? Why not?

 

Likewise, there are many things in life one learns through knowledge too. Then there is the ultimate knowledge. The knowledge of liberation. The knowledge that saves you from avoiding the pitfalls, and death life after life. The Gnani has that knowledge. The one who is ready receives and is graced by this knowledge.

 

The one who has yet to wander in search, will not happen upon, or receive this knowledge.

 

Knowledge of the Self, who am I? Liberates. This  knowledge is not to be found easily. Even if you were to find one who has this knowledge, as mentioned on the front page of www.dadashri.org it is not easy to receive it, as there are many  slips between the cup and the lip.

 

. So what really is the point - the!

  objective - of all of this satsang stuff anyway?

 

 

The critical satsang is before one meets a Gnani. This is always the case, as in the dialogue between Arjuna and Krishna, before Arjuna’s enlightenment.  This is because all seekers have doubts. They have doubts about the Self. Is there a state of the Self? Is there really such a bliss of the Self that everyone talks about? Is there a deathless state? Is it really possible to be eternally free from worrying? Can one really be without desires?

 

If the above questions are posed to a so-called Gnani, if any of them are not answered to the hearty satisfaction of the seeker, the seeker should walk away and find someone else.

 

If the answers are yes, then the next million-dollar question is, can you make me attain that. Can you make me experience that? If he says go do this and that, walk away, because he does not have it.

 

If he says, yes, and all it requires for you is your understanding only, hang in there, stay until you attain and experience it.

 

 

Even the one who leads you to such a Gnani is very very rare.

 

 

We can't attract

it or please it with good diet and deeds. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. It

isn't even an it!

 

Indeed. Anything that Michael does is not going to lead to it. It is what Michael yearns for deep within, that has the connection with it.  It is the difference the piece of a rock near a mountain stream versus the one found at the banks of a river just before it enter the long journey on the flat plains to the ocean. Hold and feel the two rocks and you will know the difference. The sharp edges are gone and the smooth stone is pleasant to touch and has no sharp edges any more. The same is the case with the human ego that asserts, ‘I know.’  The ego of the wise and the humble one has become so after clashing with other egos life after life, until it says, ‘I know that I do not know anything.’ Then it is ready to receive the knowledge that liberates.

 

 

 

Am I

correct?Self/Nature/Brahman/Intelligence has always been calling the shots, and God knows why so and

 

This is one of the commonest misconceptions of even very learned human beings. It is correct from the perspective of the one who wants to continue to struggle in this world. It is not so from the one who wants nothing from the world, simply wants to find liberation, moksha.

 

The energized, non-believers or non-spiritual people say, I can handle it. When things go against their very best efforts, they start believing on some other ‘doer’ as the higher force. There lies a much different knowledge in which the real doer is realized by the one who becomes enlightened.

 

There is more in the Q & A sessions at

 

http://www.dadashri.org/satsangdada.html

 

 

With gratitude for the unfolding and unveiling that happens as a result of this satsang with you…

 

With deep reverence for that within both of us that is reaching for the higher within…

 

 

shuddha

 

www.dadashri.org