QUESTIONS  from our readers of the web pages of Dadashri



 The answers are spontaneous and from the perspective of the experiential understanding of Akram Vignan.

The exact answers are beyond words. This will be understood once a seeker arrives and proceeds further in the scientific spirituality of Akram Vignan.

Please note that questions are in bold font. Answers are in regular non bold font. Original letters from the questioner are in blue font. Multipart questions are separated for purpose of clarity.

 

From: John

Dear Sir,

 

I want diksha or satsang with Dr, Niruben.

Can I get this in Delhi? If not, then where?

I plan to come to India soon....April.

Please give addresses and contacts.

Thanks,

John

Dear Sir/Madam,

I have been searching for Truth for a long time.

I need to go beyond words, thoughts and practices now....I long for the direct experience of the Self. Can you lead me to that?

My life has been full of irrational fear and depression. In deep meditation I have experienced the Bliss and peace of the Self but only rarely.

There must be a radical and massive change within and all of these years of searching, reading and meditating have still not led to THAT.  

I need awakening in and through the presence of a realised teacher.

Can you turn on the light of the Self within?

....I am helpless here.

Dear John:

Until you realize the Self and come to the answer of: Who am I

You have to deal with what is in front of you… through the medium of your thoughts, speech and acts.

If you long for this experience, then it is not very far away.

Please address the issues of depression through professional channels first. That which the body and the mind require must not be denied. If there are issues of untreated prolonged depression and anxiety due to neurotransmitter deficiencies these are easily corrected by a frank discussion with your doctor, just as you would if you had high blood pressure effects or effects of diabetes.

Bliss, permanent bliss is attained after Self-realization. This does not mean that the worldly problems cease. The way you react to them changes.

In May this year, Dr. Niruben is coming to the UK and if you let us know more about your whereabouts and more about yourself, we will arrange for you to meet her personally.

Through her medium you will feel that which you are seeking.

With kind regards

Jai Sat Chit Anand

shuddha

Dear Sir,

Thanks for the advice! I do not need it!

I am seriously seeking and cannot be satisfied with anything less than a complete and radical change.

Please forgive me, I am making no pretense of knowing anything about the Self, Pure Consciousness or the nature

and meaning of life itself.

I have to start from here, from what I am in life now.

Also, to say that it is going to take time to have an insight

or to awaken seems to be the lazy mans excuse for remaining asleep!

One more thing... I need a realised teacher to help me break through.

All of these things have been deeply understood...they are not just thoughts and opinions.

My particular problems if you may call them that are merely symptoms of my separation from the wholeness of life. In quiet moments amongst nature I realise this. They are Nothing and of no value unless they can help me to have some very special understanding of who I am. And they are leading me to that.

There may not be a clear path to realisation. Surely Pure Consciousness is there somewhere behind the noise of thought?

John

 

Dear John:

 

You may call me shuddha. This is my web name because I have no desire to be known or recognized. My goal is to understand and experience that which is beyond the day-to-day life events, The Self. I have found this in the words of Dadashri and having acquired the Gnan as he has given, I continue to marvel at the great depths of freedom from which all bliss stems. In conveying this to those who seek, I feel graced and blessed.

 

Today I have time to address some of your words:

Thanks for the advice! I do not need it!

            That was not my intent. The words came as a result of my physician background in response to terms like irrational fear and depression.

 

In deep meditation I have experienced the Bliss and peace of the Self but only rarely.

 

            Meditation is natural for the one who is Self realized. There is no more “doing” meditation.  When you say you experience peace of the Self, then please investigate as to who is feeling the peace. If the answer is John then it is still through the medium of the body and mind. The Self simply becomes aware of the peace or the uproar that John is experiencing and these are changing states, quite different from the eternal bliss, which is beyond happiness or unhappiness.

 

            Most traditional meditation is simply the feeling of rest the mind feels when it is being helped by lack of distraction. The weekend football watcher feels it as much as the man who has gone fishing or the woman who is knitting and eating chocolates. These help as long as the process is going on, and it leaves the moment one is involved in a task that calls for doing something.

 

            The golden key is to be able to meditate without doing anything. This only happens to the one who is no longer identified with…I am John.

 

            Please be prepared to shatter all your preconceived ideas about the Self. The Self is beyond all adjectives. To know and Be the Self means to step away permanently from all joys and sorrow that Johnwill feel after Self Realization (In Akram Vignan) has been attained. Moments of pleasure and pain will come over John like the clouds that cast shadows but you will be the Sun eternally above all such clouds.

 

            By all means, the traditional methods that you have adopted to meditate are useful, and will be complimentary for you. The difference after Gnan will be that your meditation will be continuous, whether you are at a tube station, or in a bus or walking around amidst huge crowds.

 

 

I am seriously seeking and cannot be satisfied with anything less than a complete and radical change.

 

            Your earnestness is noted. The Self has been your constant companion all your life and you have not been awakened to this dearest of all friends, He is within you, knowing you more than you can ever know him. His love for you is unconditional and non judgmental. When you stop all external seeking, He will arise within you as the real You. As long as you are seeking radical changes, He will elude you. Yet if this search is spiritual in nature it will lead you to one who will free you. This One is that which lights this inner lamp within you.

 

 

Also, to say that it is going to take time to have an insight or to awaken seems to be the lazy mans excuse for remaining asleep!

 

Quite true. There is no more time left for the one who is yearning to awaken. Those who say the above do not know about enlightenment. Thinking is not needed for realization. It simply happens. Those who think a lot fall on their own feet and run into major hurdles in spiritual science.

 

I need a realised teacher to help me break through.

 

Yes. Without such a One, it is not possible. There are such masters, who liberate you from your own bondage. Liberation is very easy. Meeting such a One is very rare.

 

 

Surely Pure Consciousness is there somewhere behind the noise of thought?

 

The Pure Consciousness, The Self, is aware of all thoughts, feelings and noise…eternally unperturbed and free. To Be That is your birthright.

 

Thank you for providing us your details. How far are you from London?

 

With Obeisance to The Divine within John.

 

shuddha

 

 

P.S. The following link has more answers to issues on Gnan:

 

 

http://www.dadashri.org/satsangdada.html

Dear Shuddha,

I felt a connection with what you wrote...almost like I knew what you stated...then why did I e-mail you to begin with?!!

"O.K.  give up your search"....How can we give up something that is so deeply ingrained in us ...like believing that Truth is like knowledge and has to come as a result of work or at the end of a search?

Evolution and thousands of years of conditioning have led us to believe in rituals, "doing" meditation so as to spiritualise ourselves and so much more rubbish. You come along and say "stop" and what am I to do?

Please tell me where the Dr. will be in London on the dates you mentioned and hopefully give me a Telephone no. to arrange a contact.

Perhaps I do not need the Dr. as you seem to be able to help me to come to an understanding?

Of what use is meditation when there is always this effort to realise during the practice? What am I to do? I cannot help wanting to break through...this searching does not lead to peace or love.

Thank you,

John

Dear John:

In answer to your points...

 

"O.K.  give up your search"....How can we give up something that is so deeply ingrained in us 

 

All human beings are in fact seeking. Most do not know it. They are all seeking for that kind of joy and happiness, which never leaves. To this end they go after that which they think will never leave. But it does. Nothing in this relative worldly life is permanent. One knows it and yet one has no choice except to pursue it. Only after finding, and being established in the Bliss of The Self, all running away from pain and all running towards pleasure stops.

 

You are quite right. This search is deeply ingrained in all human beings. The ones who finally arrive at the understanding that what one is seeking is not out there then one has arrived at the door of The Self.

 

…like believing that Truth is like knowledge and has to come as a result of work or at the end of a search?

 

Truth is beyond knowledge. It is the experience. It cannot be put into words. It resides in the heart of the awakened and the enlightened. It loses its sacredness in all attempts to express it. It is not acquired by effort or work or inquiry or penance or renunciation or any attempts at doing something spiritual. It simply happens for the one who is searching and yearning to see and experience that which demands nothing out of you. The Lord within.

 

You are indeed very near to this. You have done all that need be done to arrive at the gate to your Own Kingdom. The door will be opened if you are receptive and ready when the moment arrives.

 

 

Evolution and thousands of years of conditioning have led us to believe in rituals, "doing" meditation so as to spiritualise ourselves and so much more rubbish. You come along and say "stop" and what am I to do?

 

Investigate whether there is any difference in the result of your meditation with someone who tends to a rose plant on a bright sunny morning with love and tenderness. Both result in a sense of peace and satisfaction. There is no distraction, no selfish motive, no doing. It is simply happening. The real you become aware of the peace that John has experienced just as the knower within the person who is caring for the rose plant experiences. Self realization simply is the awakening of the one who knows the difference. Such a One knows that peace exists in that where the ego ceases. I am John is the ego. I am pure Self is the absence of ego.

 

Perhaps I do not need the Dr. as you seem to be able to help me to come to an understanding?

 

I am just leading you to the gate to your Self. The one who gives you the Gnan will open the gate. This Gnan and its nature is well explained by Dadashri in his cardinal book Who Am I on the web. I am sure you have read it. I remain as one of the many mahatmas of Dadashri who facilitate the arrival at the gate. Dr. Niruben is opening this gate for thousands in India and the few fortunate ones who meet her abroad. This science is not for everyone. It is for those who have sought and sought and are at the end of their journey of seeking, openly admitting that they have not found it. It eludes the ones who think that they know, and what they are doing, following, practicing in spiritual matters is correct.

 

 

Of what use is meditation when there is always this effort to realise during the practice? What am I to do? I cannot help wanting to break through...this searching does not lead to peace or love.

 

Indeed. Any spiritual master or teacher who tells you to do something is not there yet. Find the one who offers you your own Self. Find such a One who does not demand anything out of you. There you will experience love and bliss. Then your work is done. Dadashri represents this love and bliss. Niruben insists, and I know this as a fact, that she is simply a medium through which Dadashri is passing on this love and bliss. This Gnan is of The Akram Vignani. Please be aware of this momentous truth when you receive it. Try and spend as much time with her as possible while she is in London. Many of her followers in the UK will be most happy to help you in this regard.

 

With deep appreciation and love for the Pure Self in John

 

shuddha

 

 

Dear Shuddha,

I am excited by your answers to my questions.

Can you realise the tremendous impact this realisation via the Dr. would or could have on my life?

I do not know what preparation would be expected of me....please inform me.

You have my deepest heartfelt thanks for this communication.

 

So we search for happiness everywhere, only to find that Bliss and insight come uninvited....and that they are really there all of the time. We take up practices, forsake desires, often through some sense of spiritual superiority or guilt, and we keep on believing

that our limited 'I' is there helping us to awakening when perhaps it is only the Grace of the realised teacher that can set us free.

Could it be true ,perhaps, that Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Shankara, Patanjali and all of the other great ones were simply givers of Grace and that their recorded teachings are/were only for those who, for some reason, could not receive this awakening and knowledge of the Self directly from the teacher?

 

How does the Dr. give understanding? Is there some kind of diksha or repeated mantra?

 

There is all of this stuff on Kundalini, Vipassana, Zen etc. and you come along and say 'no' to all of that!

 

Is there a week of programs to take place in London? Please, I am still thinking in terms of practices and systems!

 

Thanks once again for reading and answering.

Namaste,

John

 

Dear John:

 

I do not know what preparation would be expected of me....please inform me.

 

There are no preparations. And that is the beauty of it. All the preparations have already occurred within you. Your longing, yearning to come home to the bliss of your real Self is the preparation. The Gnani awaits you. When you meet with Niruma, look upon her as someone who will grace and grant you with the presence and knowledge of The Gnani Purush. Feel free with her. Do not be restrained in any way. Ask all the questions and my sister and others will make you feel at home. Come as you are. Come because you want to rise above all worldly issues towards the ultimate darshan.

 

You have my deepest heartfelt thanks for this communication.

 

All who have been liberated have felt these feelings towards those who facilitate the process. I pass them onto Dadashri, with you by my side.

 

 

So we search for happiness everywhere, only to find that Bliss and insight come uninvited....and that they are really there all of the time.

 

The Self is the Ocean of Bliss. In it all rivers pour…rivers that have taken all sorts of paths. Most remain unaware even after reaching the ocean, like the fish, which thirsts for water. Out and away from the water, the fish struggle and gasp, back in it they go about without a care in the world. To know and experience that in the presence of whom, the world cares for John and that in the absence of whom, the world will rush to bury or cremate John, is freedom forever.

 

We take up practices, forsake desires, often through some sense of spiritual superiority or guilt, and we keep on believing

 

The so called holy folks, the pious and the sanctimonious, keep burdening us with what is right and what is wrong behavior and action in this complex world. The society and the friends around us cement upon us that by which we are judged.  You will finally arrive at the place where there is no guilt, sorrow, pleasure or pain, no distinctions and no expectations. You will disembark from the race course of life and all its panting and struggles for superiority and adjustments in the eyes of the world. To be that is bliss. You will be beyond all beliefs.

 

…that our limited 'I' is there helping us to awakening when perhaps it is only the Grace of the realised teacher that can set us free

 

Yes. The limited small I is John. The eternal unlimited I will arise and awaken within you, who has known all there is to know, and continually knows, John. This is where the realized master comes in. Afterwards, he lets the awakened master within , the sadguru, take over. For this awakening is permanent, life after life until final liberation.

 

Could it be true ,perhaps,that Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, Shankara, Patanjali and all of the other great ones were simply givers of Grace and that their recorded teachings are/were only for those who, for some reason, could not receive this awakening and knowledge of the Self directly from the teacher?

 

Yes. And Krishna and Mahavir… their words became scriptures. They describe the candle and a million of these descriptions will not light the candle. The live candle exists with the Self realized teacher, and the direct interaction/communication.touch/grace… of the teacher and disciple lights the lamp within the latter. The scriptures reside in the intellect and the lamp of awakening resides within the heart of the giver and the receiver. It is very precious and pure. It lets you experience the heart of the Lords whom you have mentioned.

 

How does the Dr. give understanding? Is there some kind of diksha or repeated mantra?

 

It is the continuation of the original experiment of separation of Dadashri, The Original Scientist. She continues what she promised him. In this process you will be asked to repeat the words that Dadashri used to say aloud and now she does the same. These are sentences, which are precisely designed to establish you in your real state and separate you from the world of John …internally. The world will not notice a change. John’s daily life will be the same. You the real and eternal Self within John will be free. In the state of ignorance, I am John, is the truth. In the awakened state, I am pure Self is the truth.

 

Yes, to come home is the final definition of diksha. Not to change externally or to renounce the world. The final renunciation is the awakening as to who you are.

 

There are no mantras given in the process. The mantras are for the mind. You will be transcending all states of the mind.

 

 

There is all of this stuff on Kundalini, Vipassana, Zen etc. and you come along and say 'no' to all of that!

 

All rivers…leading to the ocean. You will be taking a direct dip in the ocean. The One who is drawing you to him, has arisen after a million years. Even amongst the spiritual experts in India, innumerable folks are unaware of the phenomenal direct Akram approach to the Self. Through Niruma who is on TV in Western  India daily, many are coming to learn about Dadashri.

 

 

 

Is there a week of programmes to take place in London? Please, I am still thinking in terms of practices and systems!

 

Yes. There will be programs when Pujya Niruben comes to London. Many relate to residual questions after the Gnan Vidhi. Many others relate to interacting with new folks. The rest deals with being in her company and simply enjoying her company and observing her. Language may become a factor but not for you I believe, because you will absorb even if you do not understand.

With namaskaars to the Divine within you.

shuddha

 

Dear shuddha.

Is Dr. Nirubens vidhi a diluted form of Dadashri's?

Will I have to search for another teacher after this?

As you are aware , I want to come to the end of thesearch.  

and there is nothing left but to have the direct experience

of the Self through a realised teacher.

I have done everything and still there is no profound insight or true understanding of my true nature, or even of love or the peace that lies beyond the understanding of our ever-chaotic human mind

There MUST be a radical and profound transformation in my life and state of consciousness...this seems to be my Dharma and the reason for my ever changing moods which have pushed me beyond the normal and everyday individuals

life-patterns.

There has been a yearning to help and heal others for a long time, also. Without going into things or experiences too deeply I can honestly say that I feel I may have a gift here...

these things have come back to me.

And yet, besides all of these yearnings I still have all of the normal human desires that any man has....I  have never been able to reconcile these desires with my understanding of the sacred or my knowledge of Truth.

Love and kind thoughts,

John

Dear John:

 

At a later time I will respond to your letter at length. In the meantime would it be possible for you to narrate the paths and methods you have taken, worldly teachers whom you have met so far and their effects and results upon you and your search?

 

With kind regards.

Jai Sat Chit Anand

Shuddha

 

Dear shuddha,

You have asked a loaded question with this one!

I have been searching for as long as I can remember. I suppose it began with going to church when I was nine or ten.

The earliest system I learnt was T.M. and I followed this for about two years. Here was my introduction to Bliss, Silence and Awareness and their relationship with each other. I stopped practising T.M. because I found that I could not help using effort as a means of achieving what really should be an effortless state of meditation. In other words, frustration set in with trying not to try! Also, I got tired of only having this sense of a connection to everything around me during meditation. Using effort or concentration still does not feel right, and the use of mantra as an effortless method is nevertheless a method....I feel strongly that methods are not for me and not the way.

Influences have been J.Krishnamurti, Ramana Maharshi, and much on Zen by Japanese masters. I have always had an interest in those teachers pointing to what lies beyond thought and the limited self.

After that  I learnt a system called Samyama and have been involved with this until recently. I am certain that it has been this which has given me an intense yearning for Truth and occasional deep insights into Life and Being.

There have been clairvoyant experiences and lucid dreams all throughout this path but these things do not matter except that they sometimes provide guidance or can be useful when an important decision needs to be made.

And as I have stated before, I feel there may be some kind of healing gift within but all these things take second place compared to my quest for understanding.

There has always been a deep dissatisfaction with life. I have always strongly felt that there may be a completely different possibility....a perception that acts from a still, deep centre. The trouble begins when we try to find it!

Some time last year I met Bernie Prior. This guy claims to have realised Truth. I spent a day with him in England and what he said felt so right. He asked me how long I had been searching and I told him "about twenty years"!

I felt vibrations within in his presence and this has been happening at night quite often since then.

Dear shuddha, I hope I have adequately answered your questions. To repeat, I cannot go on practising methods or reading books. The Truth must take root within me and become a real, living presence, the awareness of which is there constantly. I have done everything...meditation, asking in prayer, reading and though I may be nearer to it now I still need a realised teacher to show it to me.

Take care Shuddha.

Warmly,

John

Dear John:

 

Is Dr. Niruben’s vidhi a diluted form of Dadashri's?

 

No. It is the very same vidhi of Dadashri. It is coming to the receiver through the voice of Niruben. The container has changed. The content is the same.

 

The intellect plays tricks with us when we doubt the authenticity and therefore the effect of this Gnan Vidhi. Niruben has always maintained, just like Dadashri used to, that your experience of the process is the testimonial. Nothing else. All worries leave, along with all inner links to falsehood, greed, the need to be validated and recognized, false pride, anger, expectations of praise, and continued links of suffering because of deluded world view.

 

Your best approach to this Vidhi would be simply this:

 

This is what I have been waiting for. This is my liberation. All other methods have not helped. I am the seeker and the receiver. I surrender all that I have learnt at the feet of the Gnani and let Him fill my cup. I want That with which I will be deluded no more.

 

Will I have to search for another teacher after this?

 

You will stop searching. John might search, out of old habits. There finally will come a point where even John will come back to You, the awakened one.

 

I have done everything and still there is no profound insight or true understanding of my true nature, or even of love or the peace that lies beyond the understanding of our ever-chaotic human mind

 

 

Alas… the Self eludes those who try to do something. The mind always wants to do something. Only the Gnani has the method by which you can be freed from the eternal shackles of the mind. The nature of the mind is to take you away with it in contradictions and chaos. The final solution to a mind that makes you suffer in pain and pleasure…is to be able to understand it as it is and to know that it is simply unfolding in front of you. To be able to see it as it is, requires for You to arise and behold it and its film…cinema…drama…in front of you. Then you are free.

 

 

There MUST be a radical and profound transformation in my life and state of consciousness...this seems to be my Dharma and the reason for my ever changing moods which have pushed me beyond the normal and everyday individuals life-patterns.

 

To want to change life is not Self -realization. This inner insistence must go. The life is unfolding as it is in front of you, and will continue to do so whether you are or not realized. The freedom comes from the awakening within and the knowledge that becomes your living experience…that you are not the one who is going through the mood swings but the one who is dying…from the day he was born….changing under the constant force of that which is happening all around.

 

To revert to your true nature is dharma. This is the first sentence of the Gnani Purush in his first Aptavani of which there are now 13 volumes.

 

Please do not expect any change in your state of consciousness. This is a common expected projected belief. The awakening is much more subtle within. It cannot be stated. It can only be experienced. Self-realization is not an altered state of consciousness. It is beyond all states of consciousness.

 

 

 

There has been a yearning to help and heal others for a long time, also. Without going into things or experiences too deeply I can honestly say that I feel I may have a gift here...these things have come back to me.

 

 

In a world rampant with strife, suffering and misery, only those who know become truly helpful. Others merely assert their egos in the name of their god of their understanding. The inner force of healing is the hand of The Lord within. One such hand heals hundreds of thousands in ways, which are beyond human comprehension.

 

….these things have come back to me.

 

Life after life we all are coming closer to our true nature…The Blessed Self within.

 

 

And yet, besides all of these yearnings I still have all of the normal human desires that any man has....I  have never been able to reconcile these desires with my understanding of the sacred or my knowledge of Truth.

 

For centuries traditional religion has created this dilemma in the mind of man. What is right and what is wrong? This is the worldly view of religion. This is not real religion. Religion can only arise within the one who is awakened. The rest is the religion of the one who is told what is right and what is wrong. Such a religion imposes boundaries in the mind of man. These boundaries initiate guilt and fear. They create further questions about the validity of such religious doctrines. Many a religious person and head walks around bound with the limitations of the teachings of his own scriptures, deathly afraid of admitting his desires and punishing his body by fasting etc for negative thoughts. Man was not meant for…”Thou shalt not…” Human birth is meant to come to know the true nature of things and The Self.

 

Then comes Dadashri who in one phenomenal and momentous statement comes with this thunderbolt: Desire is an effect. The deep inner intent (bhaav) is the real culprit, the cause of this desire. Find the cause and then the result will come forth naturally.

 

To desire is not sin. To hurt the other through thoughts, speech or acts is sin. To take advantage of the other through falsehood is sin. And if this happens, as it will after Akram Self Realization, Dadashri has shown the method to undo it.

 

 

Anyway, I think your sister may secretly have plans for me to act as agent/contact for the propogation of this Truth in the U.K.....Please understand that if this whole thing changes my life completely then I would be only too happy to oblige.

 

This Gnan of Dadashri is so amazing and beautiful that many who have received it, start flying high in the state of liberation and elation. Then after a variable time the reality sets in as one becomes progressively established in the State of The Self. Again please note that life will not change, the way you react to it will.

 

Yes, as part of the world wide family of The Gnani Purush we all gratefully welcome your unfolding life… in furthering his Vignan.

 

 

With gratitude for this satsang… and a sense of oneness with you…

shuddha

 

 

Dear Shuddha,

There is such a direct wisdom regarding your answers that I gather a great deal of peace from.

You say that after Gnan there is no higher state of consciousness and that the state is beyond that.

Every religion and system of meditation I have ever heard of advocates that through a particular practice or code of morality one ascends to higher consciousness. These beliefs are probably embedded in the very psyche of man stretching right back to the beginning of time itself....so forgive me if I am still entangled in this mindset!

After Gnan can any effort by ourselves deepen the process insight or unfoldment or am I still thinking in terms of a deluded world view? Surely this Self arising during the real state of unforced meditation after Gnan has nowhere to go but deeper into itself?

If this is so then there are parallels here with the Buddhist view of no self (can you explain this concept?) and  of returning to the void , ultimately.

Thank you once again dear friend,

John

 

Dear John:

 

Thank you for sharing with me the history of your spiritual quest. The following is only a partial response to your letter.

On the issues of Samyama and Kriya Yoga  I came across the following words  on the web under google search for these two disciplines and thought it might help us both to apply our experience and hence enhance our satsang.

If you use God as the object of concentration and contemplation, you will absorb so much of his Divine energy, his Divine Bliss, Love and Holy Spirit - that finally you may enter Samadhi or even Nirbikalpa (Nirvikalpa) Samadhi, a condition of complete Oneness with God while still having a physical body.

 

                The problem is the need to focus and concentrate on that which is unknown. How can one enter that which he has never known or experienced? Those who talk about such lofty things as Nirvikalp Samadhi in this manner are delusional. The mind with its incessant vibrations simply cannot be stilled. Those who have tried it know better than to say so. Temporary abeyance of mind activity is not true samadhi. Samadhi means to be unaffected internally from all that the mind is going through, pain or pleasure, peace or chaos.

Love of such a Divine nature and purity only comes from God and can only be experienced when finally returned to God. He is our origin and our destination. But he wants us to return on our own. Because we are of Divine nature and origin, we are free souls. Free to do whatever pleases us. All we need to learn, is to do what pleases all others as well, so we are never causing any Karma that may temporarily prevent us from going home immediately by the end of this incarnation.

Half truth above. Whether we do bad or good we are continuously causing karma. Until one realizes and experiences The Self, there is no liberation.

Deep within every human being vibrates the very Divine light of God that we are made of. We are made to his image. Out of him, out of his holy spirit. Nothing on earth or anywhere else can be made of anything else than of this Divine vibration.

Half truth above, again. The Divine Light within simply is. The visible image is our worldly self, made of karmic particles, which cease to exist at death and carry forward into another body in next life as a causal body. The Holy Spirit is simply the Self that is realized. The term Holy is still given in relative context.

 

God gave us the freedom to be his children made to his image, including all his Divine power. We are here on earth to learn make proper, loving and wise use of this Divine power. We all are here to learn to become true and awakened - grown up - children of God and to stay with God forever if we want so and have learned to do so.

This is the point of view of relative religion, which places God above us and let Him guide us. It is fine as long as one adheres to this exactly in life. This is OK for those who do not seek to know and experience God and are content to meet him on a Sunday morning appointment.

 

The same as above applies to all other "things" he created for whatever reason and purpose. All is made out of his holy spirit, out of him. And all will one day return to him. All is made of his Divine holy spirit !!! Strive to understand this. Pray to God to help you to clearly understand it and he certainly will do so.

A million such prayers will not result in the establishment of the Holy Spirit within. Yes, a single such prayer will show him the path of goodness and worldly peace.

 

Kind regards

shuddha

 

Dear shuddha,

I agree with you on many of the points raised.

The reason I first began to study Eastern teachings was because I found them not so limiting on an intellect that really wanted to go deeply into the whole question of Truth.

Holy Spirit, God etc. are less preferable words than Pure Consciousness, Brahman, Jhana, Dhyana, etc. now, and I find that often a common ground can be established between some of the more profound teachings of both Vedanta and Buddhism by resorting to these words.

Of course, I have seen that the intellect does not have any use now, or at least I am in between a world of endless doubts and questions on one hand, and the need for the direct experience that may well shatter all of my illusions

somewhat.

Patanjali's stages, beginning at first with correct moral attitude and ending with the lofty achievement of Samadhi

have probably prevented many an earnest aspirant from

knowing the Self. I have seen that Patanjali was not advocating a progressive, time-governed path to realisation,

yet this is how he is often being interpreted.....we have both known of cases where Self-Realisation have occurred without following any of Patanjali's precepts!

Other gurus state that the awakening of the Third Eye brings one into contact with both the inner and outer Guru...surely this means the same as the state of separation that occurrs after the Gnan?

Dear shuddha, my questions to you are endless but I guess you cannot dislike answering them too much because you would have told me where to get off by now!

God Bless...

John

Dear John:

 

Greetings. Your questions help me as much as they may help you. This is because we both are talking about our real Self, the unending Ocean of Bliss. Every moment in that State reaps great benefits and raises the level of that energy which does not need anything worldly for its support or function.

You say that after Gnan there is no higher state of consciousness and that the state is beyond that.

Gnan is awakening to that which is non-self (worldly awareness) and that which is the Self. The awakened one is deluded no more. This awakening sees the clear distinction between that which is constantly changing and the Self, the eternal Observer of all that is in front. The entire film of John is being watched by You. This film is very interesting to watch, because it has both external worldly interaction components and the internal ones that deal with issues of the residual ego, intellect of John, citta of John, and the mind of John. The awakened One is now the awakened observer of even the subtlest vibrations of passion, anger, deceit and false pride. An interesting new role starts for the One who is liberated, for this One becomes the sadguru and the only friend of John. Other Gnanis have called this the fourth state…Turiya. The others are worldly sleep, worldly alertness, dream states etc. Environs and food, e.g. medicines and alcohol effects, affect these latter three.

 

The Gnani Purush bestows this State and exact understanding of His instructions and satsang makes further progression to higher and higher levels an automatic internal scientific process.

 

Every religion and system of meditation I have ever heard of advocates that through a particular practice or code of morality one ascends to higher consciousness.

 

Correct. The highest state of consciousness still is limited by the mind. The traditional disciplined approach leads one higher and higher, if indeed these disciplines are followed and most are very rigorous. Such an aspirant however, is consciously aware that he, John is the doer of these disciplines and the higher he arises the heavier the ego becomes as obvious benefits of such disciplines become evident to him and those around. A few amongst such seekers are able to purify their ego with each successive rise in the chosen spiritual discipline, but Self expresses in these cases only when the last remnant of the ego is gone.

 

In Akram one is given the Self first, and then with that enlightened worldview the rest is left to flow along its natural course.

 

 

These beliefs are probably embedded in the very psyche of man stretching right back to the beginning of time itself....so forgive me if I am still entangled in this mindset

 

True. The sense of doer ship is ingrained in man from infinite lives and is confirmed by the world with which he interacts. So many circumstances have to be right and exact for a task to occur but without a thought he assumes that he indeed has done it. Even the most astute and accomplished master of meditation will not be able to do so if he has a nagging cold, headache or joint pains or a letter from a lawyer demanding damages. So on the days he is able to go into deep states of tranquility he will project that he was able to do so, and on these other days he will blame his cold or the lawyer.

 

After Gnan can any effort by ourselves deepen the process of insight or unfoldment or am I still thinking in terms of a deluded world view?

 

After Gnan your real effort will commence. The term effort is a misnomer but is used for a lack of better term for the word: purushaarth. The worldly efforts cease and true internal endeavor commences naturally. You the awakened One arises as a purush from the complex of thoughts speech and acts which the world identifies as John and the other name for it is prakruti. Both in fact are on auto pilot. As Your interference in John’s prakruti progressively decreases, Your will rise higher and higher as The Self. This is upheld by applied understanding of The Agnas of The Gnani, which will be given to you after the Gnan Vidhi.

 

So in one short sentence the only thing that remains to be done is to be faithful to the Agnas of The Gnani. Agna means a simple instruction, received and fulfilled as a promise. It has no worldly intent. It is designed uniquely by The Gnani to ensure your final liberation from the cycles of birth and death.

 

 

Surely this Self arising during the real state of unforced meditation after Gnan has nowhere to go but deeper into itself?

 

 

Not quite. The Gnan Vidhi has no parallel in our infinite life after life history. It is not an unforced meditation. It is the meeting of the seeker who wants to be liberated and the Giver of such liberation. The liberator has the key. The one who is bound is asking for the release. The Self simply is… in all. It is there in all its glory and splendor and magnificence. It is by nature blissful. It never was and will never be bound. It is the veils of karma that obstruct the view and experience. It is like the sun and the clouds. The sun simply is. The clouds of pleasure and pain, life and death come and go. The clouds affect the one who is watching all this from the ground. Such a seeker has to constantly look for moments of sunshine. The awakened One is beyond and above all clouds.

 

Gnan places the seeker above the clouds and finally as the radiant sun… eternally free.

 

If this is so then there are parallels here with the Buddhist view of no self (can you explain this concept?) and  of returning to the void , ultimately.

 

Agree if you use the small s for the self. The Self is. The Self can instantly visualize and relive the day when John first went to school with mom or dad, and explore with great detail each vivid scene in remote past. And in the case of enlightened ones The Self can see many many previous lives. These moving scenes can only be seen if there was a present unmoving Observer.

 

Yes from the perspective and vantage of the Self everything is void, because it changes and perishes and goes away. The One who says I am void has to deal with the term …am. The one who stops proclaiming still remains… to go over to the next life and the next body, which is in front of him.

 

Mahavir asserted the positive Self as the Self, negating everything else as the non-self. He became the fully enlightened living Self. Buddha in his enlightenment reached lofty heights transcending the highest layers of intellect stopping short of experiencing The eternal Self described by Mahavir. Buddha called the Self, momentary. This lack of the eternal attribute to the Self leaves a void in Buddhist line of thought with explanation of what carries on life after life. This is why despite having its origin in India; this great religion has not had much of a following in India.

 

This question of yours has intrigued me also for some time, and I guess I will know the final answer when I have attained what these two great human beings have… within their inner world. My experience so far, obviously very limited, brings forth the statements made above.

 

 

What of the sleep state itself? Does the Self remain even in that, or is this a process of in every state, whether waking/sleeping, working/resting, eating/drinking etc.?

 

Who knows that you had a good sleep when you wake up after a good night of sleep? The one that was in deep sleep does not know what kind of sleep it was. The one who was awake even in deep sleep is The Self. Likewise this Self has been your eternal companion life after life in all activities of life and it is in this great life through the medium of John you are now ready to see the face of this Lord within you… full of unconditional love…the greatest of all friends. One glimpse and all your doubts will vanish.

 

 

At His Feet

shuddha

 

Dear shuddha,

Thankyou but more!

J. Krishnamurti describes real meditation as "the state where the observer and the observed are one". Is this Turiya ?

Also, the Akram Vignan website describes methods for dealing with anger, avoiding clash and all kinds of advice regarding how we should live life.

Having received the Atma Gnan, surely the result from then on is purification and even the gradual dissolution of every

construct of the small self?

Do we not become a light unto ourselves then?

Must we cling to the moral advice of Dadashri, when at last we are aware of the impermanence of all phenomena, including desires, emotions etc.?

These moral teachings, for me, are reminiscent of the Ten Commandments....a code of life for the unitiated.Surely the Jnani/Gnani has gone beyond  the need for these?

Dear shuddha, it is  knowledge/direct experience of the absolute reality of the Self that must be acquired....this must be the only way to freedom?

Must I, before and after Gnan, make an oath to abide by these devotional tenets of A.V. when my thirst is for the experience of the Truth of the Self?

Thankyou,

John

Dear John:

 

In response to you questions highlighted below, please note that there is no intent to slight JK but to simply dissect what he says  with reference to what we have been discussing…and from my view as I behold it.

 

J. Krishnamurti describes real meditation as "the state where the observer and the observed are one”. Is this Turiya ?

 

Let us study the following words of Krishnamurti copied and pasted from the website called kfa.org:

“Freedom is not a reaction; freedom is not a choice. It is man’s pretense that because he has choice he is free. Freedom is pure observation without direction, without fear of punishment and reward. Freedom is without motive; freedom is not at the end of the evolution of man but lies in the first step of his existence. In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom. Freedom is found in the choiceless awareness of our daily existence and activity.

“Thought is time. Thought is born of experience and knowledge, which are inseparable from time and the past. Time is the psychological enemy of man. Our action is based on knowledge and therefore time, so man is always a slave to the past. Thought is ever-limited and so we live in constant conflict and struggle. There is no psychological evolution.

“When man becomes aware of the movement of his own thoughts, he will see the division between the thinker and thought, the observer and the observed, the experiencer and the experience. He will discover that this division is an illusion. Then only is there pure observation which is insight without any shadow of the past or of time. This timeless insight brings about a deep, radical mutation in the mind.

“Total negation is the essence of the positive. When there is negation of all those things that thought has brought about psychologically, only then is there love, which is compassion and intelligence.

 

If I may take the liberty to expand on what this thinker has said, please note the 3rd paragraph above. This entire paragraph confirms that what he is talking about is essentially related to the mind, and has no connection to enlightenment or freedom of Self as I know it. If you ask a man who becomes aware of his thoughts the simple question, ‘who are you, the answer will be, ‘I am John, of course’.

So it is not surprising to me that the gentleman is making divisions within the mind itself and therefore coming out with the conclusion that this division is an illusion. He simply never arrived at the level, which we have been talking about.

Freedom is pure observation without direction…

In observation one begins to discover the lack of freedom.

His mind is playing tricks with him…and all those who swallow his words….

What he used to say appealed to the intelligentsia a lot, only to return empty handed after the discussion. Deep thinkers are far from liberation. Krishnamurti did not believe in the need for a guru. Enlightenment is not possible without a liberator guru. This is because the ego is the final substrate of the mind and it needs to dissolve, before one can see the tricks the mind plays within.

The Observer and the Observed can never be one. How can the mirror ever become one with that which is reflected in it? In fact when Self –realization is attempted from the medium of the intellect this is precisely what happens. Chaos.

Here is something more to discuss openly about from his book: “ Freedom from all belief?”

" First of all, authority in so-called spiritual matters is really nonspiritual. I think that must be clear and must be understood deeply. There is no authority in man’s endeavor to find out if there is that ultimate truth. The authority of a priest, of all the religions, is based on hearsay, on propaganda, on conditioning the mind to believe in certain saviors, masters, and so on. Because, one has to be a light to oneself and you cannot possibly light your light from another.”

Agree totally. Except when it comes to the Gnani Purush. Such a one is no one’s a master or a guru. The One who liberates you from eternal bondage is very very rare indeed. What JK is talking about above is a hundred percent true about worldly gurus, because they themselves are not free and do not have the light we have been talking about. Such worldly gurus are not free from their own internal enemies. These are the very ones who insist on a certain code, commandment and follow up behavior.

Because, one has to be a light to oneself and you cannot possibly light your light from another.”

Alas, for infinite life times man has tried this and fallen on his face. This is precisely the role of the buddhi, the intellect within the brain. The sentence is perfectly true after the lamp has been lit. Unfortunately such sentences coming from famous persons throw a clinker in the minds of those who are simply yearning to come to the source.

Also, the Akram Vignan website describes methods for dealing with anger, avoiding clash and all kinds of advice regarding how we should live life.

Having received the Atma Gnan, surely the result from then on is purification and even the gradual dissolution of every

construct of the small self?

Do we not become a light unto ourselves then?

Must we cling to the moral advice of Dadashri, when at last we are aware of the impermanence of all phenomena, including desires, emotions etc.?

These moral teachings, for me, are reminiscent of the Ten Commandments....a code of life for the unitiated.Surely the Jnani/Gnani has gone beyond  the need for these?

I am pleased that you have raised these questions, which have a common theme. Please note that when the Gnani moved about in this world, thousands of ordinary folks from all walks of life met him. Not all of them desired liberation. Many just had no concept or ideas of liberation. Most were deeply involved in their worldly affairs and had never even given any thoughts to other issues in life. Most were however very aware of issues of anger, strife, misunderstandings, clash, negative passions, deceit etc. He used to open up a wide variety of general talks and let the person in front of him answer and thereby start asking the relevant inner questions.

All left, after meeting him with something. Some acquired the knowledge of the Self. Most heard him and gained some simple techniques of how to attain harmony at home and in inter personal relationships. These simple keys are universally applicable and one does not need to be Self realized to apply them.  Many who applied these simple words of his in daily living saw the practical benefits and came back for the Real thing. With That, there remained no conflicts or instructions to follow.

Yes there is a moral tone and ethical code of conduct, which the Gnani openly suggests and it is summarized in simple terms. If you are seeking worldly pleasures and comforts, give the same to others. If you give to others pain and misery, misery for you will be the end result. If you want to escape from the endless cycles of pleasure and pain related conduct, know The Self.

For the One who receives The Gnan of The Self, there is nothing more left except the following of the Agnas of The Gnani Purush. The Self is no longer the doer of anything.  John’s conduct unfolding after Gnan, which may well hurt others is adjusted as John comes nearer and nearer to The Awakened Self, You.

Yes, The Light is then lit within to see the futility of all efforts in endless corrective mode. This light is the Guiding Light of John.

Dear shuddha, it is knowledge/direct experience of the absolute reality of the Self that must be acquired....this must be the only way to freedom?

You already have an answer to this one. You have tried all ways otherwise and you know where you are. Look at Krishnamurti. Would you like to be like him? Look at Osho…would you like to be like him?

Or Look at the face of The Lord Jesus or Buddha or Mahavira… Ramana or Dadashri …would you like to experience what they have?

The mind of man plays infinite tricks. You know the above experience is within you. The Gnani simply opens the door. Only the One who has the key can do so. Only the one who has been there can do it for you.

The Knowledge of The Self is freedom. There is no other freedom. All else is bondage.

I think the key is to stop clinging afterwards once the door has been opened. Yes, absorb every word of his, but after that He can do no more for you. His Gnan then is your constant companion, sadguru and caretaker.

….this must be the only way to freedom?

 

There is never an absolute answer in the relative world. We all, at the feet of The Gnani Purush can only apprise you of what we know. Sure there are many other ways, but these traditional methods are no longer relevant for this era, and are very arduous. They require very disciplined approaches and are therefore tough. They have existed for centuries. Their relevance in these times is very limited and the only ones who are clinging to them are the so-called gurus and those validated by them, who trade upon it.

 

Must I, before and after Gnan, make an oath to abide by these devotional tenets of A.V. when my thirst is for the experience of the Truth of the Self?

No. There is no commandment or order or oath before or after. These would come from a worldly or a relative guru, never from a Gnani Purush. The Gnani gives you five simple sentences; in fact he calls them sentences. These are designed to uphold what you have gained in the process of separation and to liberate you forever from all entanglements in the universe. If you wish to sustain the experience gained in the Gnan Vidhi, these sentences will be there for you… despite all games played by the intellect.

Jai Sat Chit Anand

shuddha

 

Dear shuddha,

 

One major query, dear friend and guide!

 

So my restless mind is becoming more and more attuned to some of the theory behind A.V., thanks to your explanations.

What about this one?

 

I have discovered that there is a state beyond the fourth (Turiya) written of in the more profound Vedantic teachings

and my inquiry into this was triggered by some vague intuitive sense that there could possibly be a danger in

the seeker clinging to this belief that God is in him/her.

Of course, as you have previously pointed out, with Turiya having been attained after Gnan ....this is the beginning of the real search....Turiya is indeed a rare attainment and teachers have said it is acquired only after long periods of meditation and even then, to the fortunate few.

It has been stated that Turiya leads to a state called Turiyatita, the fifth state, which occurs "When the witness(The Self) dissolves into everything that is  witnessed, and there is the pure non-dual realisation of One Taste"

Now, some of those God-realised teachers have stated that the watcher and the watched, the observer and the observed etc., at the higher stages become one....and that this is real meditation.

Now Dadashri comes along and shakes one's whole world up with the irrevocable and undeniable experience of the Self...one is never the same after this...the reality has dawned. Now the danger is that this profound insight is assumed to be the end of the quest for ultimate truth.

It seems that, from what we have just said, that there are even more profound insights to be had.

Now, I have read that in the higher stages of Samadhi thought actually ceases, sometimes along with the breath,

and consciousness is experienced as all there is.

My question to you was something along the lines of "After Gnan can we deepen the state of insight gained by our own efforts?" In other words, can we somehow let Turiya unfold into Turiyatita?

Enough said!

Take Care,

Warmly,

John

 

Dear John:

In response to your multiple queries...

I have discovered that there is a state beyond the fourth (Turiya) written of in the more profound Vedantic teachings

and my inquiry into this was triggered by some vague intuitive sense that there could possibly be a danger in

the seeker clinging to this belief that God is in him/her.

 

Words and definitions sometimes create confusion. Especially when it relates to description of that which can never be expressed. How can I express my Real nature to you? I can only express what I feel through the medium of my mind and language skills, essentially a limiting factor. Yet those who seek liberation and those who have risen higher and higher on varying planes of consciousness still find that they are in bondage because they are rising higher within the mind. Rare is the person who shatters for once and all the final chain of bondage to find that all seeking was within the mind and there is no more seeking left. There is only the seeker left but He the Awakened One is now the Seer of this seeker…who still is trying to validate his worldly concepts of freedom, his ideas of bliss. Yet this like everything else that is relative dies its natural death after the awakening.

 

Most of what is in Vedanta is summarized in the simple sentence….Not this, not this. Neti Neti. This is the end of Vedanta. The Self is where This is it …I am That… begins. Hence the obvious rare state of turiya.  The world in ignorance is living in the awake, sleep and dream states. It considers all that as real. To the Gnani all of it is a dream, relative, transient, and dying. The Real awakening has commenced. Yet, despite being awake he still is confronted by the world and the unfolding of the karma caused in the past life… Ramana has sarcoma of the arm, Dadashri had a hip fracture that made him bed ridden for 6 months, not to mention all that unfolds in front of mahatmas (Self Realised beings of Dadashri) after Gnan. This is the carryover of past life karma unfolding their effects in this life. When the final remnant of karma unfolds and leaves…the turiyatita…above triya state has arrived and this is the state of the final moksha or liberation …no cause is left to return to a body in this universe. The Self blends and becomes One with the Universal Self and the entire universe is The Self.

 

Dadashri has not used the term turiya. He simply uses the following three terms and makes it simple for us all. He is the most practical Gnani cutting through all mazes and fences and gives us our Self in all its pristine glory. He is the greatest of all spiritual scientists because he is able to do so…give you your Self. Other Gnani’s have merely shown the techniques. None that I know have led one by the hand beyond this cosmic bondage.

 

The terms are:

 

Moodhatma…the ignorant self. The one who goes about in the world saying, I am John, This is my reality, my world.

 

Shuddhatma… the absolute pure Soul…shuddha means absolutely pure, Atma…Soul. The awakened One now will be established in the state that I am absolutely pure. Even a millionth slice of me is pristine and pure, untainted and unaffected by even the most ghastly acts or thoughts of John…in this or infinite previous life times. John continues to say I am John, but the awakening has happened, within. The separation of Akram Vignan.

 

Parmatma… The Fully Enlightened Being. The Lord of the 14 worlds, the Lord of The Universe…God in All His Glory. The Supreme Reality.

 

 

All worldy meditation on the physical plane is within the sphere of moodhatma. The one who feels tranquil after TM or Vipassana, goes to a bar one evening and feels good. Both states are in the realm of the dream world. Both require action. There is a constant sense of doership. The sense I am John never leaves. The ego simply exists as I am John.

 

 

Shuddhatma state is the State after Gnan or Self realization. This is synonymous with living moksha, liberated while living, turiya. The Observer of it all is awakened. The interim state of the 2nd phase of the moon, on autopilot slowly arising as The Self to the full moon state of

 

Param atma…The Absolute State of The Self, final liberation. The transition from the shuddhatma state to parmatma state is facilitated by the five sentences of Dadashri. There is no effort needed in this transition. Only an Exact Understanding Of The Science.

 

Now, some of those God-realised teachers have stated that the watcher and the watched, the observer and the observed etc., at the higher stages become one....and that this is real meditation.

 

Meditation as defined by Dadashri has essentially four categories.

 

Dhyan means meditation.

 

Artadhyan         Raudradhyan     Dharmadhyan    Shukladhyan

 

The first two are adverse meditation. If one is burning up from within by negativities such as jealousy, fear, depression, anxiety, disturbances of wide varieties, then this state of meditation is artadhyan. There is no spillover of this state to another being and is essentaily hurting the individual only.

 

Raudradhyan is the sate where internal adverse effects spillover and hurts another being as well. Like anger, deceit, violence in words, revenge planning, bad mouthing someone, defaming another human being, plans for hurting others etc.

 

These two represent disturbances. Both of these bind negative karma for future life.  Artadhyan leads to lower life forms like birds and animal birth. Raudradhyan leads to deeper stages of living hell. Both cause unrest and anguish within.

 

When the state is one of positive state, there is absence of the two above. There is the desire to see others happy and to help others in misery. In doing so one’s own negativity is absent. This leads one progressively towards the positive for all humanity. This is the message of all traditional religion. This is dharmadhyan.

 

All three above are occurring in all human beings spontaneously as their karma unfold. It is a fallacy to think that one is doing them. Yet for the unenlightened it is true that he is doing them and hence he has to suffer the consequences as well.

 

And finally there is shukladhyan. This is the State of the Self. The awakened One becomes the knower and the seer. This is where the mediation is spontaneous and bliss is continuous. The Observer is separate from that which is in front, the thoughts, the intellect, the citta, the residual discharging ego, the sensations, the desires, the pains, the pleasures….the world of beings outside. The Observer can never become one with the observed. It is not scientific. The observed is temporary. The Observer is permanent.  All other ideas are within the mind only. All other observations arise from within the mind and terminate with the mind.

 

In Akram, the Observer is awakened and this awakening is permanent. The Observer, the Knower & Seer of John and his world is there permanently detached and progressing towards final liberation.

 

 

Now Dadashri comes along and shakes one's whole world up with the irrevocable and undeniable experience of the Self...one is never the same after this...the reality has dawned. Now the danger is that this profound insight is assumed to be the end of the quest for ultimate truth.

 

Dadashri not only gives but lets you experience that which had eluded you life after life, the ultimate truth. The Self. There is no danger in The Self. All danger exists in the non-Self.

 

It seems that, from what we have just said, that there are even more profound insights to be had.

 

Indeed. Does the moon do anything from the sickle shape 2nd day appearance to the full moon illumination? The profound vision is a better word, for insight relates to the mind… simply grows and illuminates the gross, subtle, and the subtlest stains on the mirror of The Self…the worldly faults of John…. and wipes them with love and understanding.

 

Now, I have read that in the higher stages of Samadhi thought actually ceases, sometimes along with the breath,

and consciousness is experienced as all there is.

 

What use is such a samadhi to you or others around you? This is for those who are yearning to liberate on the physical plane. Dadashri calls this handle samadhi. You have to turn the handle to make the machine work.  This type of samadhi has nothing to do with self-realization. They only represent changes in the states of consciousness. Awareness is above consciousness. Awareness is persistent awakening to reality.

 

 

My question to you was something along the lines of "After Gnan can we deepen the state of insight gained by our own efforts?" In other words, can we somehow let Turiya unfold into Turiyatita?

 

Yes. That is all that needs to be done. Understanding this science exactly and applying the 5 agnas of The Gnani Purush achieve that.

 

Jai Sat Chit Anand

 

shuddha

 

Dear shuddha,

I am e-mailing you sometimes twice a day and still you are patient and forthcoming with your answers.....I am grateful.

There are a great many doubts, or not quite doubts but musings as to how to be most receptive to the Gnan when it is given. What kind of inner preparation can I do here, perhaps as simply even just being aware of wrong perspectives, or erroneous concepts that I have accumulated during the search, in order to let the Gnan in, so to speak?

What frame of mind and being is required in one who truly wants understanding and the seperation of the Self from the not-Self?

Would friends, family and work colleagues be aware that I have changed? Many around me are not aware of my interest in these things.How is an individual to adapt in the light of such a radical change of perspective?

Will my analysing and enquiring mind not be an impediment to the whole of the Vidhi?

I read the words of Nisagardatta with interest, and I recall reading the teachings of his teacher Ramana Maharshi a few years ago....in the realm of God-man both his and Ramakrishna's lives were exemplary, and I wonder how many other individuals there are like this, on the earth but not of it?

So I have already said enough!

Are there any others like myself keeping you busy....or should I say "pickling your head"?

God Bless,

John:

Dear John:

 

I am e-mailing you sometimes twice a day and still you are patient and forthcoming with your answers.....I am grateful.

 

The dearest of all tasks in this world for me is that which brings me closer to my Self, and this is one of them. The fact that it is doing the same for you is the natural consequence.

 

There are a great many doubts, or not quite doubts but musings as to how to be most receptive to the Gnan when it is given.

 

You already are there for its reception. You have been ever since this dialogue has commenced. For a long time after my Gnan Vidhi I used to deliberate on the container and the contents. The container meaning who is having/giving this Gnan and content meaning the Gnan itself. In more recent times, it has dawned on me that it is something more than the two. It is the inner reaction, to the two that matters. A very thirsty being will appreciate a cool tall glass of water served in Waterford crystal, with gratitude. In fact he would even drink it off a paper cup with thanks. The one with a marginal thirst will take a sip of the paper cup and ditch the rest, and may linger on the crystal ware for a while only to forget it later. Such is the case with the container and the contents. The earnestness is with the thirst and the water, regardless of how it is served.

 

The sign of Atmagnan, realization of the Self is that the thirst is quenched. There is no further seeking from without and eternal gratitude simply exists for the one who has quenched this thirst. This gratitude is beyond words. Indians express it by kneeling, or even prostrating themselves at the feet of The Gnani Purush. The external maneuvers are not important, the spontaneous ness is. There are no conditions to it. It would be false to kneel, just because others are doing so. The surrender that is called for is the inner surrender of the negativities of false pride, anger and the ego which refuses to surrender where surrender is called for… where surrender leads to peace and harmony.

 

So then, first there is the thirst… the awareness of bondage. Then there is the One with the Gnan… the container. Then there is the water… The Gnan…the remedy. Then there is the offering and the receiving of the same. Then there is the result. This is why someone who is not thirsty or who is critical of the container is not going to attain much even if he is in front of the original container… the One in whom this Gnan expressed spontaneously. True spiritual thirst arises after lifetimes of inquiry and search. Most are content with weekly Sunday school lessons from their respective religions. Yet the Gnani pours and offers it to all who come to his feet with equal love and devotion. In his eyes there is no distinction between the one who is ready and the one who is not. 

 

What kind of inner preparation can I do here, perhaps as simply even just being aware of wrong perspectives, or erroneous concepts that I have accumulated during the search, in order to let the Gnan in, so to speak?

 

To cast aside all preconceptions would be ideal. To become an empty pot would be ideal. To let it all fill to the brim would be ideal. This has happened to some extent in our dialogue. To know that all the methods so far were on the wrong plane would help. They have to do with the mind, the physical self, not the real Self. They were helpful and thus need not be discarded as useless.  Not to expect some fireworks would be great. The Gnan Vidhi is like dawn that is followed by sunrise through understanding.

 

 

What frame of mind and being is required in one who truly wants understanding and the separation of the Self from the not-Self?

 

Samarpan. Surrender. Total surrender would be ideal. The surrendering of thoughts, speech and acts…especially on the day of The Gnan Vidhi, or the afternoon of the Vidhi and for the 24 hours followed by the Vidhi so as to let it all sink in and take roots. Avoidance of reading any scriptures or spiritual books during that period, too much discussion about the process with anyone afterwards except with Niruma on the day after. You will be encouraged to meet her on the day after to bring forth any residual questions. To go to bed on the night following the Vidhi as The Self. To give yourself special time for the Great Event. To apply the Knowledge of The Self from the moment it is received. To constantly revert to the Self as soon as possible.

 

Would friends, family and work colleagues be aware that I have changed? Many around me are not aware of my interest in these things. How is an individual to adapt in the light of such a radical change of perspective?

 

Those around you may notice a change in you, gradually. Some may not. It does not matter if John has changed in the eyes of the world. It matters a whole lot if John has changed in Your eyes. John does not have to change. How you react to John’s world will change. John is constantly changing. Your running with John will stop.

 

How is an individual to adapt in the light of such a radical change of perspective?

 

To see the Divine in all is not radical. The Lord taught us that and was meaning to teach you precisely that when you attended church at 10 yrs of age. Now you will have acquired His Vision. John’s worldy life will continue as is and this Gnan does not alter any of that. Your inner release will not be noticed much by others. You will become aware of the worldly errors of John, and would notice that progressively you would blame others less for obstacles and troubles in John’s life. As the inner enemies leave, the freedom will spill over into John and then the world will take notice.

 

Will my analysing and enquiring mind not be an impediment to the whole of the Vidhi?

 

That is why it is good that all questions be asked and answered in advance. You will have the opportunity to ask all your residual questions to Pujya Niruma before the Vidhi. Spiritual enquiry is healthy. The intellect that interferes is not. The role of intellect is to compare, find faults in the other, props the worldly ego, and by all costs avoid the spiritual path of enlightenment. In this sense this intellect is an enemy of the one who desires liberation. The intellect that is obedient, lets you respect and revere the Gnani and lets you receive the Gnan is the good and the healthy intellect.

 

I read the words of Nisagardatta with interest, and I recall reading the teachings of his teacher Ramana Maharshi a few years ago....in the realm of God-man both his and Ramakrishna's lives were exemplary, and I wonder how many other individuals there are like this, on the earth but not of it?

 

All the three Great Human beings that you have mentioned were enlightened and have walked the face of this earth to liberate or point the way to liberation. Spontaneous awakening within man is rare and happens as the cases above, except for Sri Nisargadatta who had a guru. Dadashri did not have a guru in this life. Ramana was not the guru of Nisargadatta. The two never met. To be in the body and yet be totally detached from it is the sign of an Original Gnani. Such human beings are very very rare. To meet such a One is an extreme rarity and to know that he is such a One after meeting him is even rare. Many such beings are recognized for their true worth after they leave the world. Dadashri is a classic example. Now the Vignan of Dadashri is continuing through others because of its intrinsic powers and strength of the words of Dadashri.

 

On closer examination, you will find that of all the Gnani’s mentioned Dadashri stands out because he is able to give, impart and make you The Self. The others were not able to do so. When asked by seekers who had come to meet them from far and wide, they would merely state that the enquiry must continue. I state this with full humility, respect and deference to the followers of these other  Gnanis whose devotion to them may stir some vibrations of negativity upon reading these sentences.

 

Are there any others like myself keeping you busy....or should I say "pickling your head"?

 

Not many, like you. You are a thirsty one. Besides, our web site is one in a trillion and we do not advertise or pay to make it reach many more.

 

With Kind regards, JSA

shuddha

 

 

Dear shuddha,

So I finally have dates, times and venues for Gnan in London!

Questions!:

 

The Gnan is being given on different days over a week or longer.....Can one receive this twice? (I am thinking in terms of deepening process here). Perhaps with a week or so

apart?

 

There is no limit on the number of times you may take Gnan. In fact, every opportunity to sit in the Gnan Vidhi is a great blessing.

 

Dear shuddha,

Thankyou......to continue.

You have stated that the five sentences given after Gnan Vidhi will sustain the separation that occurs as a result of the Gnan.

So these are not mantras, with any magical power, neither are they moral commandments. It is hard for me to understand how these sentences can have such power unless they are imbued with some kind of energy which is a continual and potent connection to the very source of the teachings....Dadashri?

And yet they are both believed in and upheld within the A.V. teachings. And there is not even a repetition of these sentences needed?

Please can you elaborate?

Thanks,

John

 

Dear John:

 

In further clarification to your questions

 

You have stated that the five sentences given after Gnan Vidhi will sustain the separation that occurs as a result of the Gnan.

 

So these are not mantras, with any magical power, neither are they moral commandments.

 

A mantra is anything that stills the mind or tries to contain the mind, thus guiding it in a specific direction. The 5 agna is not a mantra in this sense. The Agnas essentially transcend the mind and does not require the mind for their applied understanding and execution after Gnan.

 

Magical power… eh? This is the miracle of all miracles because it is real, and experiential and eternal. It does not vanish like a magical trick.

 

Moral commandments…

Moral…is a relative word. The Self is beyond all man made ideas of morality and immorality.

 

Commandments….

This term can only be applied if the receiver has no choice otherwise, and the commander is some superior who will dish out punishment if they are not followed. Perpetual Grace is a better term for the 5 Sentences.

 

It is hard for me to understand how these sentences can have such power unless they are imbued with some kind of energy which is a continual and potent connection to the very source of the teachings....Dadashri?

 

Exactly. There is the energy of a Mula Purush… who walks the face of this earth, after life times of sadhana… seeking and having arrived and attained the Infinite Bliss Of The Self …wants to share with his fellow human beings. Our history is filled with such beings… and Dadashri is relevant to our times. It has been merely 15 years since his physical departure but the vibrations of his State continue to liberate thousands….His words in Gujarati in Aptavanis and other books have profound effects on the listener and I  vouch for that.

 

And yet they are both believed in and upheld within the A.V. teachings. And there is not even a repetition of these sentences needed?

 

Believed and Upheld….

 

The issue of belief and upholding only arises for the one who has to rely on these two. For the one who has been seeking life after life for a drop of nectar of bliss, this is true. What belief and supporting activity is needed for the One who is now immersed in the Ocean of Bliss?

 

Does the ocean have any need to flow up the river? The nature of The Self is Bliss. After The Gnan Vidhi, all seeking stops naturally, because one has come home. What is left is the dying intellect factor. Its demise is inversely proportional to the increasing bliss of The Self.

 

Dadashri has used the example of the water in his book who am I? If you want to heat a quantity of water, what would you do? Answer:  Light a fire underneath the vessel. And if you want to cool that water what would you do? Answer of many:  add ice etc. Dadashri’s answer: Nothing…go to bed and in the am it would be cool. Why?  It is the intrinsic nature of water to come to its normal state. Likewise, the self is constantly seeking the Self. The constant activity of karma… not the mind, is the impediment. In fact ignorance of this knowledge is the impediment. And karma is the result of ignorance of the knowledge of The Self.

 

And there is not even a repetition of these sentences needed?

 

No. Repetition is only for the ones who have not arrived yet. Repetition is only for those who want to try for liberation or wanting to achieve a desired worldly result. When one surrenders to the Gnani there is no work left. Only the bliss of continued unraveling of The Self.

 

Kind Regards & Happy Easter

shuddha

 

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Last update: May 02, 2003